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Briview and the Road to the Quarters
By Mark H January 10 2008
It's almost an annual comment now, but Falcons' European Challenge Cup future is once again reliant on a trip to Brive, the objective being getting enough points to be in a position to top the pool Sunday afternoon and grab at least a home quarter-final.

It's the third season running the clubs have met, and whilst Falcons have won all three in England, it's one-all in France; a perfect six out of six return was completed two seasons ago with a 24-17 away victory, but Brive bit back 41-12 in round two last year before going on to top the pool. Whilst another loss wouldn't necessarily exclude Falcons from winning the pool - Brive have to travel to Connacht next weekend - a win would seal top spot, and possibly a home quarter final for Falcons, with the home fixture against Cetransa next Sunday. More on that later though.

So how have Brive been faring this season so far? Well, when you've played only five league games pre-Christmas and are already on your second coach, you have to wait until the fifth game for a win and then against the team just above you in the Top 14, and your new coach is saying that "the season starts against Perpignan" - away - then not good is a pretty fair description. Olivier Magne, signed as a player from London Irish in the summer, was hoisted into the coaching role after the first two games (both home losses) with the remit of reviving the former European champions. With Eurosport's weekly highlights seeming to have any number of shots of Magne with head in hands each week, it's been a tough first coaching role. With that win at Dax though coming straight after two big wins over Cetransa, it seemed as though fortunes may be changing.

And then came Perpignan, and yet another defeat, 23-19, in the Aime Giral. Reports suggest that the two late tries that gave Les Brivistes a bonus point came when the Catalans eased off; certainly not a good omen for the weeks ahead. As it stands in the disjointed Top 14, Brive lie twelfth, with only the promoted sides Dax and Auch below. Whilst they won't go down (there appears, as in the Premiership, to be a clear gap), if the promoted sides were of the same quality of Montauban and Albi a year ago, then they would be in serious peril - big club, great support, former star promoted to coach, more experienced coach taking charge of part of the team (Laurent Seigne and the forwards), results not happening.

Do they remind anyone of Northampton Saints circa 2006/07?

And to add to the Northampton analogy, four players with differing histories in the East Midlands now ply their trade at Brive (I would say perform, but that would really be stretching the word as far as Brive are concerned this season). Prop Luke Harbut spent part of a season in the black, green and gold regaining fitness before heading for Biarritz, whilst Ben Johnston, the former Sarries centre, was due to be at Franklin's Gardens this season before medical problems meant a collapsed deal and a new job in France. Johnston was taken to the Steve Thompson, by that point employed as a coach/recruiter of talent. When Wally was substituted against Biarritz in January, it looked like his last action on a rugby field after damage to his neck meant an early retirement. Having already agreed to sign for Brive (despite many denials at the time), the club stuck by him and offered the off-field role, but once his coaching career started, the hunger pangs that playing at the top level bring appeared. Seigne encouraged Wally to get a second opinion, and a third opinion later he was cleared to resume his career with the hope of regaining an England spot supposedly lost forever. So far on his comeback he's appeared at hooker, prop, and back row, but still managed to pop up in the position that Saints supporters know him best in - on the wing.

Finally, Ben Cohen left Saints in pre-season (three days after being of a particularly sunny disposition at the club open day, four days before the first friendly) for personal reasons, and after training with Leicester with the intent of joining them, found himself barred by the salary cap regulations and so met up again with old mate Thompson in France. His debut at Dax brought a Cohen try of old, powering through a gap to score under the posts. All four have something to prove, so good luck to all four - particularly the last two, as I hope they get what they want out of their new lives.

There is, however, a fifth Brive player with a Northampton connection; full back Barry Davies left Llanelli in the summer, four seasons after scoring a wonder fluke try at Franklin's Gardens to send the Scarlets into the Heineken quarter finals. Add winger Farid Sid to Johnston, Cohen and Davies, and Brive have the firepower to worry us. They just seem to have kept the powder very dry so far this season.

So the qualification route. If Falcons win then the pool will be won, probably with 24 points, as we will beat Cetransa and get a bonus point. Unless Leeds pull off what would be a major shock and win at Castres next weekend, those 24 points will be good enough for at least a fourth seeding, and a home tie - probably against Castres - in the quarter final. That fourth seeding would then bring the joy of an away semi, which on form would be at Edgeley Park. You have to say that it would be a difficult, but very satisfying, way of making the final if we're lucky enough to do so.

Should Falcons lose on Friday night without a bonus, that would leave the pool with Brive on 19 and Falcons 15 - hence meaning that a bonus point in Galway would give the pool to Brive. A bonus point Brive win, without anything for us, would give it to Brive a week early. If Falcons got a bonus point though and Brive fail to do so, then we are in prime position for next weekend. Should the victory margin be less than six points, Brive would have to beat Connacht to win the pool - a draw would leave both teams on 21 points and Falcons would triumph (and probably travel to Castres then Sale) by virtue of match aggregate points. A Brive victory by seven would leave them needing a draw or two bonus points in Galway; victory by six points (the same margin as at Kingston Park in November) would still leave Brive would take it down to try count. As the sides have scored one apiece, then it’d be the top try scorers tomorrow night who triumph.

One advantage that Falcons have is that should Worcester win at Sapiac, then they would not only win their pool and be in prime position for second seeding, but that they would also eliminate Montauban in the process. Given Auch’s try deficit (ten behind us currently) and their trip to Bath next Saturday, it would guarantee us at least a runner’s up spot without having to look elsewhere. Montauban versus Worcester kicks off half an hour before us.

There is another huge advantage that Falcons have over the rest of the competition, and that’s that next Sunday’s game against Cetransa is the only game being played that day; whatever’s needed (and don’t rule out the need for a shed load of tries to rise a place in the seedings) will be known in advance. For that, the fixtures secretary at ERC should be shot - we benefit this time, but it could equally be us having to kick off on Thursday night (like Leeds and Castres) and then waiting for elsewhere. I can see there being some unhappy teams come 5pm next Sunday afternoon. It also raises another possibility.

Should Falcons lose tomorrow and effectively be playing for a runners up spot, holding the try count to a certain level could mean, for example, retaining a trip to Worcester rather than committing to visiting the flood plain at Bath, and therefore raising the possibility of a home semi-final should we win at Sixways (as well as a deadly dull Sunday afternoon). That said, looking at all of the pools, 20 points (the minimum we will finish on) looks likely to be the high qualifying mark for the best runners up, thus meaning a trip to the third seeds and an away semi-final.

So, the games to look for elsewhere this weekend are:-

Montauban v Worcester (Friday) - home win prolongs the pool, away means only Worcester go through from there.

Leeds v Dax (Friday) - a five pointer for Leeds puts them on 20 and through regardless of next week, four points and they may need something on Thursday in France.

Auch v Albi (Saturday) - anything other than a five pointer for Auch and they cannot reach 20.

Bayonne v Montpellier (Saturday) - less than two points for Montpellier and they cannot reach 20; even an away win will mean that they have to beat Sale next Saturday to assure a runners up spot.

Falcons WILL therefore be celebrating on Friday - let’s just hope that it’s not flat vino but the fizzy bubbly stuff after a pool win. Coverage is on Sky Sports 1 from 5.55pm, whilst Kev and Smithy will be on Radio Newcastle as usual and interactive on our site.

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Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: RucknRoll™ (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:10:12:14:39

"Should Falcons lose on Friday night without a bonus, that would leave the pool......."

Mark that paragraph is some of your best work ever. Wonderful.

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: Mally (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:10:12:24:30

Err so we're though? I read that lot and my brain now aches... (mind you I've just been teaching equivalent fractions so my mind is a bit foggy!!!)

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: Mark H (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:10:14:08:04

We'd have to lose at home to a Spanish side not to make it. And that won't happen.

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: RucknRoll™ (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:10:14:09:16

Mike Tyson v Buster Douglas?

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: Mark H (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:10:14:12:11

One punch v eighty minutes.

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: citizen-slacker (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:10:14:54:40

Offy

Quote:
Wally's been at the pies again
Brive's English trio of Ben Cohen, Steve Thompson and Ben Johnston are not involved in the game, with Cohen not registered for Europe and Thompson having been pulled out of rugby duties for the next few weeks while he undergoes an intensive personal fitness regime.

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: Get Stuck In (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:10:21:42:08

Thank you, Mark H.
An excellent exposition. Great work.
That's what I call really doing your homework!

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: Leipziger (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:11:06:12:26

Great stuff Mark, can't wait for the game now!

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: Mark H (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:11:09:01:05

One point on Montauban v Worcester. With Worcester playing Bucuresti at home next week, they've pretty much won the group, and a win tonight will, with their try count already and next week, probably give them second seeding.

If Montauban win tonight though, then they would probably get to twenty points (based on 4 tonight) as they have Parma next weekend and should get the full five. Their try count would mean that it could be a straight fight between them and the runners up in our pool as to whether it's a trip to The Rec or Sixways in the quarters. The Montauban victory, should Worcester not get a point, would mean that it would probably come down to try count between them and us if we win this evening.

Is it 6 o'clock yet? This game just cannot come quickly enough...

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: Sam / minxy (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:11:16:51:45

STOP MAKING MY HEAD HURT!

I was following that just about until you started on about Wuss again.

In any case I'll be watching the board; none of the tellies I can see while pretending to work have Sky Sports on them, and the pretending to work bit'll get in the way of listening too.

Oh for headphones at this desk!

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: lebigmac69 (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:11:16:55:53

I'm also sky-less - in fact, if anyone fancies recording the game I'm happy to swap DVD for beer?!

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: steve1888 (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:17:21:46:54

Castres it is then

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: .Mark Smith (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:17:21:51:33

Steve1888,

Almost certainly Castres. Still technically not 100 per cent though.

In the unlikely event that Bath get zero match points at home to Auch and we get 5 match points on Sunday we would leapfrog them in to 3rd seed.

Unlikely, I admit, but theoretically possible.

Cheers
Smithy

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: steve1888 (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:17:21:55:41

There's more chance of Touchline coming to the wasps game in pink and green bermuda shorts and flip flops with a kodak fun cam than that happening Smithy!

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: .Mark Smith (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:17:22:00:07

TouchLine,

Go on... you know you want to...!

Cheers
Smithy

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: Monkey1. (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:17:22:19:21

TL is away sunning himself, he has to keep the vitamin D levels up to maintain his cheery disposition.

The scenario above is not as unlikely as you may think. Barf have a very soggy pitch & few alternatives in case the game is unplayable at The Rec. As the home team, if they are unable to offer a game then they forfeit & Auch take the points while they get a big fat zero.

Pray for rain in the Avon valley or sunshine as you decide best
(Sm3)

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: Leipziger (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:18:11:01:59

You're down there aren't you Monkey? Can you not take a hosepipe to the Rec pitch the night before the game?

Re: Briview and the Road to the Quarters
Posted by: steve1888 (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:01:18:20:28:24

Brive managed to go through in the end with a win at Galway Sportsground. shame for Connacht and had fancied them to get a result tonight but not to be - they still have a chance of HC rugby next season though so good luck to them.

Connacht 15 - 22
(5 - 8) Brive R
Tries:
Mostyn, McPhillips

Tries:
Sid, Bonvoisin, Hufanga
Pens:
Dunne Pens:
Petitjean

Cons:
Dunne Cons:
Petitjean 2

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